Two by Two

What’s the dumbest thing about hospitals that we still tolerate in 2025? This simple question kicks off a deep dive into the broken core of the Indian healthcare system. From confusing X-ray pricing and misaligned incentives that prioritise “sick-care” over healthcare, to the irritating experience of endless queues and fragmented records, the problems are deeply entrenched in the system. In this episode of Two by Two, co-hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar talk to two founders who are not just trying to patch the system, but rebuild it from the ground up. Varun Dubey of Superhealth and Mayank Banerjee of Even Healthcare are both creating smaller, hyperlocal, and experience-focused hospitals. They break down how they’re unbundling the bloated cost structures of traditional hospitals, redesigning the patient journey, and realigning incentives by putting doctors on full-time salaries with ESOPs. The conversation explores the difficulty of disrupting the current healthcare system and the…

In this episode of Two by Two, we map out a viable AI strategy for India that plays to its unique strengths, not its weaknesses. Co-hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan sit down with Chaitanya Chokkareddy, co-founder and CTO of Ozonetel–a cloud-based communication platform providing call-centre solutions—who presents a contrarian view: India’s current focus on acquiring GPUs is a flawed, capital-intensive race it cannot win. Instead, the real, defensible moat lies in India’s cultural and linguistic data. We dive deep into why a “data sets over GPUs” strategy is crucial to prevent the cultural exclusion of a billion people, how it impacts the very way we learn and feel, and why India’s massive IT services industry is sitting on a goldmine for building the next generation of AI agents. This episode of Two by Two was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and anyone else who might be…

In this episode, we sit down with Ishendra Agarwal, founder and CEO of Giva, to unpack his mission to democratise fine jewellery in India. We look at how Giva is rapidly scaling its omnichannel presence with over 270 stores and targeting Rs 850 crore in revenue, all while catering to the modern consumer’s desire for accessible, fashionable pieces. Co-hosts of Two by Two Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan take a deep dive into the transitioning shift caused by lab-grown diamonds (LGDs). The conversation tackles one core industry debate: can LGDs, dismissed by some legacy players, ever hold emotional value as heirlooms, or are they purely a fashion statement? Ishendra also makes an emphasis on the importance of brand and design and how they will be the ultimate differentiators in a commoditising market. We also explore Giva’s operational innovations, from using AI in design to their “Giva Go” quick-commerce model for last-minute gifting. For anyone interested in consumer brands, market disruption,…

India’s fintech-based NBFC lending sector offers many lessons. Three early pioneers—Capital Float (now Axio), Zestmoney, and Lendingkart—raised significant amounts of venture capital, built solid momentum, and achieved growth and penetration. They pivoted, explored multiple opportunities, and yet, ultimately had to sell out. In this episode of Two by Two, co-hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan are joined by guests Shivashish Chatterjee, co-founder of DMI Group, and Arundhati Ramanathan, The Ken’s deputy editor. Together, they discuss the business models of these lenders—including balance sheet lending and the rise of “buy now, pay later”—and what lessons can be learned for the future of India’s fintech lending ecosystem. This episode of Two by Two was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and anyone else who might be interested. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us…

In this episode of Two by Two, co-hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar are joined by Ayyappan Rajagopal, founder and CEO of the quick-commerce platform Firstclub. A veteran of India’s e-commerce sector with leadership roles at Flipkart, Myntra, and Cleartrip, Ayyappan shares his vision for a differentiated experience in the crowded quick-commerce market. While existing platforms are highly transactional and compete on speed and discounts, Firstclub aims to be a curated, discovery-led platform offering high-quality products. For brands, Firstclub positions itself not just as a retailer, but as an extended distributor and brand-building partner. It works closely with brands, associating only with those whose stature and target consumers align with its curated vision. For consumers, Firstclub is drawing inspiration from the Costco model by planning a membership-based system to build a loyal customer base and offer superior products at better value. Delve into this conversation to understand how…

In this episode, co-hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar sit down with Munaf Kapadia (VP of growth and marketing, Natfirst), and Arjun Anjaria (founder, Unbox Health) to discuss the challenge posed by misleading food labels in India and the resulting deterioration in consumer trust. Unbox Health uses independent lab testing to verify product claims, creating an objective D to A+ rating scale based on label accuracy, toxicity, and nutritional profile. While Natfirst, and its consumer app Truthin, interpret the data already on product labels—analysing ingredients, additives, and processing levels—to provide a simple 1 to 5 star rating with the goal of empowering “conscious consumers” who want to know what’s in their food. Arjun and Munaf, with several years of combined expertise in this domain, help us understand the rocky terrain of consumer labeling in India by breaking down the current regulatory landscape, the ineffectiveness of existing penalties for mislabeling, and much more. This episode…

Join Rohin and Praveen as they celebrate the one-year anniversary of the 2x2 podcast, reflecting on 52 episodes of business and strategy discussions. This special ‘vibes’ episode looks back at their journey creating Two by Two, the evolution of the show, and future plans, deviating from their usual topic-focused format. Praveen shares key meta-narratives he picked from the past year, including a "desperation-driven convergence" where companies like Flipkart and Phonepe try to become each other. He also highlights themes such as the government shaping markets as a "competitor" or through "artificial constraints", and a "great career existential crisis" impacting roles from engineers to marketers. Other themes include the "destruction and retreat of big tech in India", the podcast's contrarian framing of topics, and a focus on India's "livability crisis", addressing issues like urban infrastructure and air pollution. We’d love to hear what you think about Two by Two as well. You can write to us at…

Welcome to the year-end special edition of Two by Two. We’ve released 22 episodes of Two by Two since our inaugural edition in July. We’ve covered an incredible breadth of counterintuitive topics framed as, well, two by twos. Would Flipkart become Phonepe before Phonepe became Flipkart? Did Delhi prick Bengaluru’s bubble? Is the golden era of the software engineer over? Why is health insurance broken? How will Ola and Uber avoid ‘death by a thousand cuts’? Why is Zepto behaving like a gold medallist? Can venture capitalists do no wrong? Dmart versus the challengers at the gates. AI and the impending disruption of Indian SaaS. We’ve had incredible fun exploring these ideas with a bunch of really sharp, experienced and opinionated guests. Finding guests who don’t hesitate to speak their minds and state unpopular truths has been one of the hardest things. Far, far tougher than finding interesting topics. We owe all our guests a huge thanks for trusting us. Far too many professionals and leaders prefer to stick…

Happy Deepavali, dear listeners! On account of Deepavali, the Two by Two team is also taking a small break. But don't worry; we'll be back with our regular programming next week. Until then, you can always listen to past episodes of Two by Two that you haven't gotten around to yet. If you're a Premium subscriber listening to this on The Ken’s mobile app or on Apple podcasts, you can just scroll down and listen to any of our episodes in their full, unedited form. On the other hand, if you aren’t a premium subscriber yet, you can listen to one of our older episodes which we’ve unlocked for you. In fact, in the latest unlocked episode, we argue, debate, and discuss what Netflix needs to do to win in its last growth market — India. Netflix's last growth market. (Full republished episode for free users available on Spotify | Apple Podcasts | Amazon Music | Youtube) By the way, if you’re in the mood for something other than two-by-twos and business models, why don’t you head over to Daybreak, The Ken’s daily…